20:02:22 =-= herlo has changed the topic to ``Marketing Meeting''
20:02:59 * spevack is like the Meeting Terminator today
20:03:05 <moixs> hehe :)
20:03:10 <spevack> charging from one to another and leaving destruction in my wake
20:04:18 <themayor> lol
20:04:27 <themayor> how many are here so far
20:04:46 <biertie> biertie here!
20:04:57 <moixs> Rolling call?
20:04:58 <biertie> .fas biertie
20:04:58 <zodbot> biertie: biertie 'Bert Desmet' <bert@devnox.be>
20:05:28  Jibesh (n=goodboy0@59.93.202.207) has joined #fedora-meeting
20:05:50 <themayor> yeah roll call i guess
20:05:57 <moixs> Steven Moix
20:05:58 <themayor> lets make it quick i dont want to fall behind
20:06:03 <mizmo-out> hi
20:06:05 =-= mizmo-out is now known as mizmo
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20:06:11 <fugolini> FrancescoUgolini
20:06:18 * themayor waves to mizmo 
20:06:23 <mizmo> Máirín Duffy
20:06:24 <mizmo> yo themayor
20:07:40 <themayor> lcafeiro is on his way to scale i know that
20:08:15 <spevack> Max
20:08:22  hondra has left freenode ("chramst..mlask..hehehe")
20:08:24 <spevack> still trying to extract himself from #fedora-ambassadors meeting
20:08:32 <themayor> np
20:08:48 <themayor> alright, moixs youre recording, right?
20:08:54 <moixs> This time, yes :)
20:09:04  Jibesh has left freenode ()
20:09:36 <themayor> okay thanks for that
20:09:47 <themayor> did you see the not about the irclog2html thing?
20:09:59 <themayor> should make your life alot easier
20:10:20 <moixs> Yes, I already experimented with it
20:10:32 <themayor> okay great
20:10:38  mcepl (n=mcepl@49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz) has joined #fedora-meeting
20:10:45 <moixs> should be up 1 minute after the meeting ;) So spevack should be happy
20:10:51 <themayor> anyway, lets move on to bigger and better things then
20:10:57 * spevack is willing to give you 10 minutes :)
20:11:02 <themayor> lol
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20:11:55 <spevack> ping?
20:12:30 <themayor> yeah
20:12:40 <themayor> i was looking something up in email
20:12:43 <themayor> alright
20:12:58 <themayor> so im glad that people were receptive to the new idea
20:13:16 <themayor> so we gonna start working from that starting from this meeting
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20:13:32 <themayor> i kind of sucks that ianweller and jonrob cant make it to the meetings anymore
20:14:05 <fugolini> can we have a new meeting time?
20:14:18  sdziallas (n=sebastia@p57A2D46B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
20:14:24 <fugolini> (to have them here)
20:14:25 <themayor> if thats what everyone wants and it will get more people here, then sure, im not opposed
20:14:55 <spevack> well, let's do what we can today, without them.  is there anything on our agenda that doesn't involve ian or jonrob?
20:15:00 <herlo> a couple hours later in the day would probably all that needs to happen...
20:15:20 <themayor> yeah, yes, i was about to say, lets not discuss it right now, but do it on the list
20:15:24 <moixs> a couple of hours later is in the middle of the night in europe :p
20:15:30 <biertie> a couple hours = like...? :p
20:15:44 <themayor> it might need to be earlier actually
20:15:45 * herlo agrees with spevack, however
20:15:49 <biertie> I can come till 21 or 22h utc :)
20:16:02 <moixs> Let's ask this on the mailinglist
20:16:07 <herlo> this can be discussed on the ml
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20:16:15 <fugolini> +1
20:16:18 <themayor> okay, can someone be the wrangler for this stuff and try and coordinate between everyone?
20:16:29 <themayor> and then report back to us next week?
20:16:42 <moixs> I'll do it
20:16:46 <themayor> or send an official mail to the list regarding what should be done
20:16:50 <themayor> moixs: thanks again man
20:17:10 <themayor> ideally if we are going to change times, we should have it done by next week already
20:17:11 <themayor> agreed?
20:17:24 <spevack> yes
20:17:25 <biertie> agreed :)
20:17:35 <themayor> okay good
20:18:07 <themayor> now moving on, moixs thanks for your post to the list about action items that should be on the calendar
20:18:11 <themayor> did everyone see that?
20:18:29 * biertie did
20:18:33 <moixs> I think that this should be put on the wiki so everyone can add ideas in the subtasks
20:19:30 <themayor> yes agreed
20:19:37 <themayor> i was going to ask you if you thought you had time to do so
20:20:36 <themayor> so the schedule from now on is going to be on Marketing/Schedule/Current
20:20:55 <themayor> and thats going to be a link to Marketing/Schedule/Fedora 11 Marketing Schedule
20:20:59 <spevack> themayor: you mean Current_marketing_schedule to keep our wiki overlords happy :)
20:21:06 <spevack> and Category:Marketing
20:21:08 <themayor> yeah whatever
20:21:26 <themayor> im bad with that stuff, i need to work with pfrields or kwade to get that stuff in order
20:21:42 <spevack> Well, we start by making any new pages in the proper fashion
20:21:43 <themayor> but conceptually, we are on the same page
20:21:51 <spevack> yes, please continue
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20:21:52 <themayor> spevack: yes, thats what i meant
20:22:05 <moixs> themayor: ok, I'll manage that tomorrow too
20:22:18 <themayor> i dont even know if i did the current schedule page correctly
20:22:39 <themayor> because i used {{Marketing/Schedule/Template}} and I think thats not good right?
20:23:30 <spevack> Content is more important than presentation, IMHO.  Throw it up on the right page (Current_marketing_schedule) and then clean it up
20:23:31 <themayor> either way from last week's meeting everyone was supposed to send me tasks that thought should be on there and no one did yet, except for moixs
20:24:20 <themayor> okay so can we discuss then the range of things which we need to do for each release and then carry that over into specifically f11?
20:24:22 <spevack> themayor: I thought the tasks that were on JonRob's schedule page were quite complete
20:24:29 <spevack> themayor: +1
20:25:03 <themayor> the stuff thats on there is for now, yes
20:25:10 <themayor> except there are 1-2 things that need to be added
20:25:19 <themayor> but anyway, working with what we have
20:25:30 <themayor> lay press contacts, that list will be up at the meeting next week
20:25:40 <themayor> i have a list here of people we usually talk to and people we might want to speak to
20:26:14 <spevack> themayor: who's in charge of the lay press contacts?
20:26:16 <themayor> due date is 03-03 so i figure if we have it by next week, its enough time for people to look it over and tell me what they think and if we are missing anone
20:26:22 <themayor> me
20:26:30 <spevack> ok.  :)
20:26:31 <themayor> of contacting them or making the list?
20:26:35 * herlo makes a suggestion about the wiki
20:26:37 <spevack> making the list
20:26:50 <spevack> herlo: suggest away
20:26:55 <themayor> im responsible for the initial list and i guess we will work with it from there
20:27:00 <themayor> herlo: go
20:27:02 <herlo> as you go to pages that have this/that/theother just do a move to the appropriate name this_that_theother
20:27:06 <herlo> that's what I do
20:27:13 <spevack> herlo: clever man
20:27:15 <herlo> it will make moving things around a lot easier
20:27:20 <herlo> and everyone can help
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20:27:44 <fugolini> sure
20:27:47 <herlo> if you don't know what to change it to, ask the WikiCzar :)
20:27:59 <themayor> we need to make a session where we can meet up and have ian here and work on that stuff
20:28:08 <moixs> herlo: so the wiki structure is basically completely "flat" now?
20:28:15 <herlo> moixs: yep
20:28:18 <herlo> basically
20:28:19 <moixs> ahha
20:28:27 <herlo> the trick is to also add categories
20:28:33 <themayor> if we focus on it for an hour once or twice between now and say 2 weeks from now, we could accomplish quite alot
20:28:53 <herlo> like [[Category:Marketing]] at the bottom of the pages making them relevant and they'll show up in the category pages
20:29:02 <herlo> that's how mediawiki categorizes things
20:29:05 <themayor> ill kickstart that discussion on the list right now actually
20:29:10 <moixs> herlo: yep, I've seen that, thanks
20:29:18 <herlo> np, good luck all
20:29:31 <moixs> themayor: include a discussion about pages we could delete
20:29:32 <herlo> feel free to hit me up with q's too
20:29:52 <themayor> herlo: would you want to help lead one of those session then maybe?
20:29:54 <herlo> moixs: deleting pages is a whole other discussion
20:29:58 <herlo> themayor: sure
20:30:29 <moixs> herlo: may I ask why?
20:30:32 <themayor> okay awesome, thanks, just reply to the thread and we will figure out the logsitics together i guess
20:31:19 <herlo> moixs: in #fedora-mktg, I'll explain so we don't detract
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20:31:28 <themayor> okay great
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20:32:03 <themayor> anyway, now, so we have tasks for f11 set more or less, we will add things to it, im sure, so i want to talk generally now
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20:32:24 <themayor> lets walk through a release cycle and try and enumerate what we need to do, just to get an inital list
20:32:30 <themayor> sound good?
20:32:33 <fugolini> yes
20:32:48 <spevack> go for it
20:33:02 <herlo> +1
20:33:38 <themayor> okay so one thing i was having kind of a struggle with was this
20:33:46 <themayor> lets start at 6 weeks prior to an alpha
20:33:53 <moixs> themayor: let me put my list quickly on the wiki so we can update it in real time
20:33:59 <themayor> okay sure
20:34:03 <moixs> it will be more efficient than doing it afterwards
20:34:06 <spevack> themayor: is 6 weeks prior to alpha basically the previous release?
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20:34:23 <themayor> its a little after isnt it?
20:34:41 <themayor> the alpha doesnt come out 6 weeks after GA
20:35:03 <moixs> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule/Template
20:35:06 <themayor> unless im misunderstanding what you are asking
20:35:25 <spevack> themayor: you understand me
20:35:27 <moixs> here you go, can you update it during the meeting?
20:35:28 <spevack> carry on, sorry
20:36:04 <themayor> yeah one second the page is taking a while to refresh maybe a cache flush
20:36:17 <spevack> moixs: pretty good list, there
20:36:33 <spevack> what does "    *  Renew the news distribution network people list to always have " mean?
20:36:45 <themayor> he means have it update for this release
20:36:55 <themayor> meaning if there is stale info on it or someone we dont want to deal with
20:37:00 <moixs> spevack: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/NewsDistributionNetwork
20:37:21 <moixs> yes, to avoid te ambassador effect :)
20:37:42 <moixs> I think it would be a good idea to ask people at every cycle if they still want the job
20:38:00 <moixs> 2-3 people per language, not hard to manage
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20:38:49 <spevack> ok, makes sense.  I think we need a checkpoint other than "FUDCon" though, since there is not always guaranteed to be a FUDCon at the right time in the release cycle
20:39:05 <themayor> yeah thats why i said 6 weeks prior to alpha
20:39:06 <spevack> all the checkpoints should be at a certain date, X weeks/days before the release date
20:39:09 <spevack> themayor: yeah
20:39:13 * spevack updates the page
20:39:18 <moixs> Ok, change it to "Alpha -6 weeks" or something like that
20:39:36 <themayor> i like t-minus X weeks to alpha, beta, etc
20:39:37 <spevack> done
20:39:44 <themayor> alpha-6
20:40:15 <moixs> So, what do you see us doing in this period?
20:40:42 <themayor> okay also one VERY important thing
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20:40:47 <themayor> talking points
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20:41:06 <themayor> and have the first of the two meetings between us, fam, docs and art
20:41:29 <themayor> actually, mizmo, when do you start developing themes for a new release?
20:42:34 <mizmo> themayor, we already started
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20:42:41 <mizmo> themayor, we'll have a wallpaper in the beta
20:42:44 <mizmo> (a rough cut i might add)
20:42:48 <mizmo> (very rough)
20:42:51 <themayor> no i know, but im saying in the future, in general how many weeks before
20:43:12 <mizmo> it's changed every release. generally we've been pushing further and further back so we are as early as we can
20:43:16 <mizmo> be
20:43:32 * herlo thinks those points in time should be defined as 'Milestones' of their own maybe?
20:43:46 <herlo> and can be defined against alpha beta or GA?
20:44:01 <themayor> yes
20:44:08 <themayor> this is why we need to have those types of meetings
20:44:12 <herlo> that way, they can move a little...
20:44:25 <themayor> to iron out policy and process to coordinate
20:44:39 <herlo> right
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20:45:11 <mizmo> poelcat does have that all defined in his f11 schedule
20:45:39 <themayor> right we are trying to set up the same thing for marketing, as a general template for every release
20:46:41 <themayor> mizmo: for f12 is 6 weeks before alpha too late to sit down and talk about the artwork for you guys?
20:47:42 <mizmo> themayor, not if we have a release name by then
20:47:49 <mizmo> we did not for the f11 alpha -6 weeks
20:47:56 <mizmo> iirc
20:48:21 <themayor> ah ha, good point, art would naturally be tied to release name somewhow
20:48:32 <moixs> Ah yes, the release name is an important trigger too..do we have an idea when this comes?
20:48:43 <themayor> how long before alpha is name voting done? spevack do you know?
20:49:05 <spevack> themayor: let me look back at F11 and i'll tell you in a few mins
20:49:11 <fugolini> ping
20:49:19 * herlo thinks we call that a Milestone: Official Codename Announced
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20:49:43 <mizmo> themayor, you'll probably want to look at poelcat's schedule, he has all these milestones on it
20:49:54 <spevack> themayor: voting began on Jan 5
20:50:03 <spevack> so about 1 month before alpha
20:50:03 <themayor> i did i dont remember seeing that
20:50:07 <themayor> let me look again
20:50:18 <mizmo> it should be, he had it out at fudcon boston not long ago
20:50:22 <mizmo> and i remember that being on there
20:50:36 <themayor> i was going to sit with poelstra regardless on our template schedule to make sure everything looks kosher to him
20:50:39 <moixs> I have this in the news archive page :p
20:51:06 <spevack> themayor: good idea
20:51:08 <themayor> mizmo: no im not denying youre right, im just blaming my bad memory and over-involvedness
20:51:15 <moixs> 12.01
20:51:20 <herlo> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/
20:51:26 <mizmo> its all good :)
20:51:31 <moixs> And the alpha was released on 06.02
20:51:40 <herlo> does that help?
20:51:43 <themayor> either way, that fits in the alpha minus 6 timeframe, so in a word, yes, its good to have that meeting then
20:52:28 <themayor> its perfect, right before we have the name, art should be gearing up, ambassadors are doing what they do and docs is working on retooling things for the next release
20:53:00 <mizmo> well we need an extra two weeks
20:53:05 <mizmo> the voting began on jan 5
20:53:12 <mizmo> the name was decided when?
20:53:17 <herlo> at fudcon
20:53:21 <moixs> 12.01
20:53:42 <moixs> or 01.12 in US notation
20:53:47 <herlo> ty
20:53:53 * herlo was gettign so confused :)
20:53:58 <mizmo> so the art team gets 2 weeks to figure out what to visually represent?
20:54:03 * mizmo doesnt remember what it was for f11
20:54:09 <mizmo> i think it was feb 2
20:54:12 <mizmo> so we did get 2 weeks
20:54:33 <mizmo> i mean, 6 weeks before the alpha, the first 4 weeks the art team is not going to know what they are doing for the artwork
20:54:44 <mizmo> and you were interested in 6 weeks before
20:55:29 <themayor> mizmo: you dont have to have decision or anything by then
20:55:36 =-= willygarcia_ is now known as willy_willbeback
20:55:42 <themayor> its just like a pre-milestone metting to get coordinated between each other
20:55:58 <themayor> and to make sure if you need marketing to help with anything, that we are doing ti
20:56:09 <themayor> adn will be able to have it on schedule assigned to someone
20:56:14 <spevack> themayor: may I offer a suggestion?
20:56:27 <mizmo> themayor, ohhh okay
20:56:30 <mizmo> themayor, makes sense
20:56:39 <themayor> spevack: yes
20:57:05 <spevack> one of the things that we need to recognize here is that especially in the context of a release, and the schedule of tasks around a release
20:57:19 <spevack> there is a lot of coordination needed between marketing, websites, and artwork, in all directions.
20:57:35 <spevack> I think that it would be wise to have a checkpoint before Alpha, Beta, RC, Final for those three groups to all get on the same page
20:57:49 <spevack> thoughts from anyone?
20:58:10 <moixs> Add this task to the list then, a joint meeting to see if no group lags behind
20:58:14 <fugolini> nothing from my side, at list for this point
20:58:36 <herlo> +1 spevack
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20:59:18 <themayor> thats why i proposed two meetings
20:59:27 <themayor> one before alpha and one between beta and GA
20:59:38 <themayor> but if we want to we can add another
20:59:52 <themayor> spevack: thoughts?
21:00:09 * mmcgrath coughs
21:00:33 <mmcgrath> you guys almost ready or should we move to #fedora-admin?
21:00:43 <spevack> ah, sorry mike
21:00:48 <spevack> we'll move to #fedora-mktg
21:00:55 <spevack> themayor: sounds good, btw
21:00:56 <fugolini> ok
21:01:00 <themayor> yeah will that mess up the log, btw?
21:01:05 <mmcgrath> no worries
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21:01:16 <spevack> themayor: i'll work with moixs to make sure it all works out
21:01:39 <spevack> EVERYONE, TO #FEDORA-MKTG
21:01:46 <spevack> mmcgrath: do your thang